Eine offizielle englische Version 2k3 betrachtet.

Petition for Signatures
Official Topic

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This suggestion was thrown into the table and so we have to ask, if we were to release RPG Maker 2003 in English would you buy it?
Vote and post your suggestions here~

Just a note, take the EULA into consideration. This means you guys shouldn't use patches/plug-ins/external programs if you want to use RPG Maker.

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Well, what can I say? There's a possibilty that Degica/EB! will look into creating an official English version of RM2K3 if there's enough demand for it. What do you all think? Should we embrace this momentous occasion that would allow us to use 2K3 legally? Would you pay for such a thing? Let your voices be heard!

And sign the damn petition! <3

Also, please spread the word around to any and all sites you frequent where people use the program. The more people made aware, the better!


Disclaimer: This was requested by a fan - namely me - to a staff member, so no hatin' on Degica. Got an issue, take it up with me and I'll show you my reasoning. Since some people are asshats. (Not necessarily anyone here, but there've been some people that are being a bit douchey about the idea.)


(Sorry if this is the wrong place to put this. I wasn't sure where it should go. ^.^; Also, sorry it's not in German, but the word needs to be spread.)

Leider ist dies nicht in deutscher Sprache.

FAQ
Why now? Why not 10 years ago?
The simple answer? Because no one bothered asking for it.
The complete answer? Degica only took over the publishing of EB! products at the advent of XP. Up until that time Protexus was the publisher and they weren't really concerned with the English community. When Degica took over, they reached out to the Western community. It's thanks to them that we have any English makers at all. They also hadn't thought that it would be appreciated, so until a fan actually asked about it...
When they were asked they said, sure, let's see how much demand there is and if there's enough we'll do that.

Is it worth it for them to do this? Aren't they just wasting money that could be better spent on other things?
To quote Touchfuzzy, Admin of the official RM site:

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I'm going to use variables because I have no idea exact costs. Let's say we have Project 1 and Project 2.

Project 1 costs x to produce, and brings in 10x

Project 2 costs 2x to produce, and brings in 10x

If we do just Project 1 we make 9x, if we do just Project 2 we make 8x. If we did BOTH projects, we could make 17x.

Hence why if something sounds like we will make x's we will find the money to do it. Also, translating 2k3 if it does work out, could make a good deal of money as it has low costs comparatively to bring over, that could be used to FUND other projects.

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In other words, the money they make back on this can be used to make other projects, like more resources for the newer makers. How is it a waste of their time to hire a few translators to make an English version of a game that might net them some profit back from a product they missed out on thanks to a shoddy publisher?

Why should we pay for something we already have?
There are two main reasons and they both boil down to ethics.
The first is that it's illegal to use the engine. Okay, get the laughter out of your system. I'll wait.

Seriously though, supporting the system that has been loved and used so much over the years is a great thing. It makes you feel better, for one, and encourages Degica to listen to the fans about what they want, for two. Me, I like the idea of owning RM2K3. I like the thought that I've given back to the people who had such a large part of my youth. I remember the first time I even found out there was an RPG Maker and how awesome it was, thinking that I'd be able to make my own game, just like the ones I'd played in my childhood. I love the idea of giving something back for that.

Another reason is the RTP. Currently, unless you bought the Japanese version, using the RTP in any engine is illegal. Remember that RTP is sounds as well as graphics. The legal usage of a selection of music and sound effects... do I need to quote how much it costs to 'buy' music to use that flows and fits together? Hundreds, if not thousands of dollars. Seriously.

Owning the program. In English. Legally. This means, barring any rips or other illegal content, you may sell your game.

Xp/VX/VXA are better! Also, do 2k instead!
That's not a question, but I'll respond anyway. Yes, they're better in a lot of ways, but for those looking to push themselves when it comes to eventing, for those who are new to the programs, for those who like old school RPG charm? 2k3 is a better bet.
2k... well, as much as I love 2k, 2k3 offers something that NONE of the other makers have. A default side-view battle system. Also, better eventing.

How much will this cost? They should add extra stuff!
I put these two together because they relate. Firstly, they've said right out that the cost would be set at $20. Not too bad, eh? This is a program in English and the RTP for use in any other engine. Neato~

Adding extra stuff would just drive up the price and make things harder on their end. A translation, maybe a bug fix for the agility issue... That's what they're offering. They aren't going to recode a whole new engine, they aren't going to add scripting features or higher resolution or redo the graphical side of the RTp or add self switches (;.;) because doing so would take away from their other projects and drive up the price.

But what about patches and things like Cherry's support programs? Aren't they illegal?
Yes, of course they are. To make the patches they had to mess with the source code of the game and that is against the EULA. That said, it's like using rips. It's illegal, but as long as you're not trying to sell the game and waving big red flags, Degica isn't likely to be bothered prosecuting you for it. I mean, how many prosecutions have there been with the pirated version? Or even with VX games that use the Tile Swap patch? I can think of two, perhaps, and those were really popular and well-known outside of the community.
It's like editing rom files. The companies won't go out of their way to police it unless someone throws up a flare of some sort (That one Chrono Trigger fangame comes to mind.)

Is this official or are you just trying to gather support for a cause that has no chance of occurring?
This is official. If 1000 signatures are raised, Degica will do this. Why? Because a fan asked. How awesome is that?

Any other questions? Just ask.

Also? This.
http://rpgmaker.net/media/content/us...rm2k3_Flux.bmp
Thanks to Iddalai for making it.

There are already three newer RPG-Makers on sale (even with official English translation), so Enterbrain won't care no matter how many signatures you get.

Actually, they are caring. If 1000 signatures or more are gathered it's a distinct possibility that this will happen. Check out the links in the topic if you want proof.

Why should we care about an official version? What is it for?

Why wouldn't you? It helps them to be inspired to make more of an effort to listen to the fans.
You no longer have to live in shame knowing you've got a pirated copy.
You will legally own it.
It also makes a neat collection item for nostalgia's sake.
You can legally sell a 2k3 game.
You will gain legal usage of the RTP that came with it so that if you want to use it in other RM engines, you can.
You'll be supporting the people who support your hobby - it's almost like you'll be supporting your hobby yourself.
You will no longer be one of the dregs of society who pulls down the rest of your hobby-kin.

Are those enough reasons? Or would you like more?

If you read the topic, you'd see that they didn't throw this idea out there to make money. I asked a staff member I was in touch with if it were possible to get a LEGAL ENGLISH Translation. I'll post up the Chatlog if you like.

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Zitat von Davy Jones

Because Enterbrain could revise the 2k3.

I'll sign it, but these guys should really care for updates instead of throwing out the 1.09 and hope for money. This is not how it works.

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You are missing the point. Enterbrain didn't even thought about translating Rm2k3 to English. A FAN -the thread maker- requested to a staff of the English Publisher of RM (Degica) if they could publish it to the English Audience for the sake of LEGALITY and NOSTALGIA. Please read the thread. At least it shows that EB/Degica/However you'd like to see it is actually listening to their fans.

Owning rm2k3 means you can show off your rm2k3 game anywhere legally since you own it. You can also reuse whatever RTP assets it had in the newer makers since you own it, for whatever reason. Enterbrain has absolutely no reason or interest to bring it in English on the first place. The staff at Degica are RM fans that are acting as a voice for RM* fans to EB.

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Zitat von Tetris

Why should we care about an official version? What is it for?

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I think you should reread the debates about the legal questions concerning maker games. The whole discussion about legal ressources hardly makes sense if we don't even care about the legality of the program.

@Topic:
I think EB might have missed its opportunity... I've seen quite a number of die-hard 2k/3 users switch to the VX or the VX Ace recently. Though considering how many people here hesitate to switch programs and how far Cherry has come with his patches, there might (or rather, should) be a lot of users here who'd be quite happy about an official western release.
Personally, I'm thinking about using the VX Ace, so I doubt I'd buy the 2003. But I think I'll sign anyways. xD

Just out of curiosity, how many communities are you asking? 1.000 signatures don't seem many, but the number of 2k3 users isn't that high either. :/

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Just a note, take the EULA into consideration. This means you guys shouldn't use patches/plug-ins/external programs if you want to use RPG Maker. I also wanted to add that this was actually requested by a fan and her reasoning was she wants to own a legal copy of her childhood program, which we think isn't a bad idea if it's for the sake of Nostalgia and just a collector's item.

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I think this is where things get difficult. Most people here use heaps of patches and plugins. Then again, buying a program and then infringing the EULA is still better than outright pirating it in the first place - I think...

The best part is that Enterbrain wouldn't really care about that. The Staff just brought it out to be on the safe side and just mention the EULA as a friendly reminder.The staff edited her post!

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Just a note, take the EULA into consideration. This means you guys shouldn't use patches/plug-ins/external programs if you want to use RPG Maker. Not sure about the RPG_RT.exe though since I know it's not illegal to change the icon *hint hint, wink wink*

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I'm trying to reach as many as I can. So far I've hit 14 sites. I'd really appreciate if anyone added it to others, too. Especially non-English ones! Start a chain reaction, so to speak.

This really is a big deal, though. How many other companies would take a fan's suggestion and run with it when it comes to an older program?

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Zitat von Libertia

You no longer have to live in shame knowing you've got a pirated copy.
You will legally own it.
It also makes a neat collection item for nostalgia's sake.
You can legally sell a 2k3 game.
You will gain legal usage of the RTP that came with it so that if you want to use it in other RM engines, you can.
You'll be supporting the people who support your hobby - it's almost like you'll be supporting your hobby yourself.
You will no longer be one of the dregs of society who pulls down the rest of your hobby-kin.

Are those enough reasons? Or would you like more?

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Für alle Englisch-faulen übersetz ich das mal (translation for germanfags):

- Du lebst nicht länger mit der Schande einer Raubkopie.
- Legaler Besitz des Makers.
- Schickes Sammelobjekt zwecks Nostalgie.
- Du kannst dein 2k3 Spiel legal verkaufen.
- Du kannst das RTP legal in anderen RPG Makern verwenden.
- Du unterstützt die Leute die dein Hobby unterstützen - es ist fast so als wenn du dein Hobby selber unterstützt.
- Du bist nicht länger der illegale Abschaum in Sachen Spielentwicklung.

Die fettgedruckten sind mal die wichtigsten Punkte, man könnte sich selber Grafiken zusammenzimmern, das RTP benutzen oder aber Refmap legal einsetzen.
Normalerweise verbieten die Autoren es nämlich, das man ihre Materialien im Zusammenhang mit einer illegalen Version des Makers benutzt, nur interessiert sich bislang kein Schwein dafür. Wenn ihr wirklich legal werden wollt, wäre es sinnvoll sich hierfür einzusetzen nur um wenigstens ein Recht zu besitzen die Grafiken benutzen zu dürfen anstatt die Nutzungsbedingungen zu ignorieren.

->Translation: The bold things are the most important points, people could make custom graphics, using RTP or using Refmal legally.
Usually the Refmap authors forbid the usage of their material in connection with an illegal maker version. Unfortunately, no ass in the community cares about that. If you really wanna be legal, you should sign the petition. At least for having the rights to use the Refmap graphics in a legal way instead of shitting on their terms of usage.

I suggest the following:

* Everyone who wants to sign the petition, please do so. Maybe something might happen. Maybe not.
* Everyone who doesn't want to sign - OK, then don't.
* Everyone who doesn't want to sign and keeps on ranting here anyways - shut up. Please. That's annoying. It's troll-free Thursday!

Nicht übel, schon 46 Unterschriften =)

Nice, already 46 signers =)

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I'm trying to reach as many as I can. So far I've hit 14 sites.

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Also the Brazilian sites?

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You no longer have to live in shame knowing you've got a pirated copy.

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I feel no shame so far.....

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You can legally sell a 2k3 game.

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I make games for free.

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Zitat von Tetris

I feel no shame so far.....


I make games for free.

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Shut up, you toll.
@Thread: Even signed it while I use a legal copy of one of the newer maker.

Thanks Gala~
And yes, I dropped some links in a few Brazillian and Indonesian sites. Although, please, if you know any sites I may have missed, post there too. Spreading the word ~

Also, a confirmed price if they do get enough signatures is $20. Nice and cheap~

Signed :)

Let's hope we crack the 1000 signature cap.

Thanks for spreading the word!

hmhm die Idee gefällt mir, allerdings bin ich noch am überlegen, ob es sinnvoll ist, dort meinen echten Namen, meine echte Adresse bzw. beides einzugeben... vielleicht kann mich ja mal jemand etwas ermutigen...

Richtig nachprüfen können die das ja wohl nicht... haben nur die IP, die Email wird vermutlich bestätigt werden wollen aber das wars dann wohl auch schon...

Signed. I still prefer the ol 2k/2k3 to the XP and VX. Even though you can do much more with the newer ones, there are less sets you can choose from and also I can't use Ruby - without the usage of Ruby at least the XP has even less possibilities than the 2k/2k3 (no facesets for example).

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Zitat von Renasci

You are missing the point. Enterbrain didn't even thought about translating Rm2k3 to English. A FAN -the thread maker- requested to a staff of the English Publisher of RM (Degica) if they could publish it to the English Audience for the sake of LEGALITY and NOSTALGIA. Please read the thread. At least it shows that EB/Degica/However you'd like to see it is actually listening to their fans.

Owning rm2k3 means you can show off your rm2k3 game anywhere legally since you own it. You can also reuse whatever RTP assets it had in the newer makers since you own it, for whatever reason. Enterbrain has absolutely no reason or interest to bring it in English on the first place. The staff at Degica are RM fans that are acting as a voice for RM* fans to EB.

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So it wasn't their idea, we all heard you. But actually, this changes nothing, does it? They are considering to release a legal english version, so why would that bother you? Sign it or just shut up.